Travis interviews fantasy author K.S. Villoso about her latest book, The Wolf of Oren-Yaro. They talk about the power of family, the difference between writing craft and excellent storytelling, and writing Watership Down fanfiction.
If you like this episode, you might also like these other posts:
- Reviews for The Wolf of Oren-Yaro by Kopratic, Tam, and Wol
- Our interview with K.S. Villoso when the self-published version originally launched
- On Food and Pointy Things, a guest post from K.S. Villoso about food and worldbuilding (with a recipe!)
- An original fantasy cocktail recipe by Wol: Khine’s Milk Tea
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About K.S. Villoso
K. S. Villoso writes speculative fiction with a focus on deeply personal themes and character-driven narratives. Much of her work is inspired by her childhood in the slums of Taguig, Philippines. She is now living amidst the forest and mountains with her husband, children, and dogs in Anmore, BC.
The Wolf of Oren-Yaro
“I murdered a man and made my husband leave the night before they crowned me.”
Born under the crumbling towers of Oren-yaro, Queen Talyien was the shining jewel and legacy of the bloody War of the Wolves that nearly tore her nation apart. Her upcoming marriage to the son of her father’s rival heralds peaceful days to come.
But his sudden departure before their reign begins fractures the kingdom beyond repair.
Years later, Talyien receives a message, urging her to attend a meeting across the sea. It’s meant to be an effort at reconciliation, but an assassination attempt leaves the queen stranded and desperate to survive in a dangerous land. With no idea who she can trust, she’s on her own as she struggles to fight her way home.
Transcript:
The transcript for this interview was generously provided by the wonderful Jacqui, who you can find on Twitter as @Blackwingjac.
Travis: In the speculative fiction community, we often talk about the joys of escaping into a new world and stepping away from reality for a moment, but sometimes, instead of escaping the truth, a story can force us to look it in the face. Welcome to The Fantasy Inn, where we share our love for all things fantasy and discuss the broader speculative fiction industry. I’m your host, Travis Tippens.
This week’s interview is with fantasy author K.S. Villoso, author of the Chronicles of the Bitch Queen series, The Agartes Epilogues, and Blackwood Marauders. Her newest book, The Wolf of Oren-Yaro, released just last week. Kay and I talk about writing Watership Down fanfiction, the difference between storytelling and writing craft, and of course, the power of family. Let’s jump right in.
Welcome to The Fantasy Inn, Kay. It’s a pleasure to have you with us here today.
K.S. Villoso: Thank you for having me, Travis.
Travis: So, I guess, first of all, a question I like to ask is: how did you fall in love with the fantasy genre and, sort of, what’s been your journey on the way since then towards becoming a writer.
K.S. Villoso: So, I started writing before I actually started in the fantasy genre.
Travis: Okay.
K.S. Villoso: I’ve been writing since I was, like, six or seven years old, I don’t remember. Yeah, it’s just something I’ve been doing for a long time, mostly because it’s like free entertainment [laughs]. But for fantasy, I think I started with Watership Down.
Travis: Ah, a classic.
K.S. Villoso: Yeah, because, like, I started reading that and then I got into Redwall from there, and Redwall was kind of like the beginning, like the gateway drug.
Travis: Yeah, that was one of my gateway drugs too, I think I’ve read almost all of them?
K.S. Villoso: Yeah, I had most of them up until the point, like, where I just grew tired of them, but yeah.
Travis: Yeah, and I know people like to give George R.R. Martin a hard time for food, but man, those Redwall feasts.
K.S. Villoso: Oh yeah [laughs]. And they were so addictive. They just, like, it’s just feasts and then fighting and then [laughs].
Travis: Yeah, they really were, and, I mean, to this day I still have random Redwall songs stuck in my head because there were so many of them.
K.S. Villoso: Yeah [laughs].
Travis: Yeah, that’s probably my main lasting memory from those books, actually.
K.S. Villoso: Yeah.
Travis: So, I guess, I think you mentioned Watership Down, so how was it, I guess, starting out writing fanfiction? You’ve talked about – this just seems like such a fascinating place to start for me
K.S. Villoso: Yeah, like, I started writing fanfiction when I was, like, fourteen and that was the first time that I actually finished a novel-length work of anything. I think it was, the stuff I was writing was going past the 100 000 words.
Travis: Wow, at fourteen?
K.S. Villoso: [Laughs] Yeah, and I was posting them on fanfiction.net and people liked them. They were actually pretty popular at the time [laughs].
Travis: Ah, that’s so impressive.
K.S. Villoso: But yeah, it used the world, but it had original characters.
Travis: Okay, is it still, I’m assuming sticking with rabbits or did you expand outside of that?
K.S. Villoso: I didn’t for a long time. So, I wrote that one and then I wrote a second book in that setting, and then yeah, I didn’t write any fantasy until I was maybe seventeen. So, yeah.
Travis: Yeah, and the fantasy you started writing at seventeen, was that what became The Agartes Epilogues? I’m sorry if I’m pronouncing that poorly.
K.S. Villoso: Yeah, that was actually the first iteration of Jaeth’s Eye.
Travis: Okay. Jaeth’s Eye. I’ve been saying it in my head “Jayth’s Eye” this whole time. Okay, there’s probably going to be a lot of that throughout this [laughs].
K.S. Villoso: Yeah, I mean, I made a lot of names up, so [laughs] it could go either way.
Travis: Yeah, that’s true. I guess, reading what you’ve kind of written online before and just from what I know about you, so you grew up in the Philippines, right?
K.S. Villoso: Yeah.
Travis: And you spent most of your childhood there?
K.S. Villoso: Yeah, thirteen years.
Travis: Thirteen years, okay. So, I guess I’m curious, like what was your journey, like, what was it like growing up in the Philippines and then how did you transition over to, did you go directly to Canada from there?
K.S. Villoso: Yeah. Like, growing up there, I guess people expect me to say it was horrible or something, and maybe I’m just looking at it with rose-colored glasses, but it was great. Even though you didn’t have access to the resources that you have in a first world country, I think there was a lot of adventure and a lot of just making your own entertainment, kind of thing.
And the biggest thing there is that the Philippines is a very religious country, but at the same time, we believe in the old animism stuff, so like, there are spirits everywhere and you have to be careful not to offend them, and like, even the older people believed in those things. So, it was like living in a fantasy world in a way.
Travis: Yeah, that’s awesome.
K.S. Villoso: Yeah, like all the monsters and the spirit stuff [laughs].
Travis: What kind of monsters and spirits is kind of in the culture down there? Here, I know, I’m mostly only familiar with, I dunno, vampires, werewolves, things like that. I assume maybe it’s a little different?
K.S. Villoso: Yeah, we have something called the aswang, which is like a ghoul slash werewolf kind of monster that, it’s more of a catch-all term because in the Philippines it’s a lot of different islands, so the people have similar beliefs, but like it’s very different, there’s a lot of cultures in that one place. So, we say aswang and then there’s lots of different kinds of aswang. And like, one of the popular ones is the manananggal, which is, it leaves half its body behind and then it flies around and then it sucks unborn babies [laughs].
Travis: That is horrifying [laughs].
K.S. Villoso: Yeah, it is horrifying, and that’s the thing, like, living there when we were kids, say, they would just talk about “Oh, there’s, like, manananggal flying around” so your kids just stay at home and don’t go out [laughs].
Travis: Wow [laughs]. That would definitely keep me indoors.
K.S. Villoso: Yeah [laughs]. Like even the grown-ups believed it too. Like, some of the grown-ups, if they start talking, you can see in their faces they believed it, so you believed it.
Travis: Wow, yeah, I would definitely be a good kid and stay inside, although, for the most part, I kinda was anyways [laughs].
K.S. Villoso: [Laughs] Yeah, so I stayed indoors and I wrote, and I read what I could.
Travis: Were you mostly reading outside the fantasy genre at that point, or did you start reading more in the fantasy books?
K.S. Villoso: In the Philippines I was mostly reading classics.
Travis: Okay.
K.S. Villoso: Yeah.
Travis: Were there any favorite classics that you had?
K.S. Villoso: Uh, I loved the Jack London stuff, as well as, I read Mark Twain and… who else… the author of Little Women, Louisa May Alcott. Basically, anything I could find in the bargain bin [laughs].
Travis: Yeah, I mean that’s probably a great foundation for someone who develops into being a writer, like, learning from the greats.
K.S. Villoso: Yeah, like, when I was starting out, I was copying a lot of their sentence structures, just kind of mimicking how they would write.
Travis: Right. Yeah, that makes sense. I’ve heard some writing advice that, I don’t know how much I subscribe to this theory but, that one way of kind of getting in the zone is to pick like a really talented author, an author you admire and just kind of like hold the book in front of you and type out some of the sentences, and feel what that feels like.
K.S. Villoso: Yeah, I think at some point you have to start developing your own, but like, just try to get a feel for what good writing sounds like, like the flow of it.
Travis: Right. Um, well, what eventually took you up to Canada?
K.S. Villoso: Oh well, my parents immigrated, like they’d been planning for a while and then, yeah, like, there just wasn’t a lot of opportunities back in the Philippines for them. They were both engineers and even as engineers we lived in the slums so [laughs]. Like, it’s difficult to get ahead there if you don’t have contacts or networks or… it’s a very different world.
Travis: Yeah, and that’s actually what you were originally pursuing as well, right? Engineering? I think, civil engineering?
K.S. Villoso: Yeah.
Travis: Okay, how did you switch over from civil engineering to writing?
K.S. Villoso: So, I got laid off, and then I had an existential crisis [laughs].
Travis: Yeah, that’ll do it!
K.S. Villoso: Yeah. So yeah, it was not like jumping to a new job, it was kind of a bad situation where my cousin was taking care of my kids and then she had to find another job, and then, like, we lived in a very inconvenient area, so, more or less I just fell back into writing for a bit, just to see where it went.
Travis: Childcare is, uh, really expensive. I know it is here, it probably is there as well.
K.S. Villoso: Oh, it’s very expensive here. When I was working, basically half my paycheck was going into childcare.
Travis: Wow, that’s insane.
K.S. Villoso: There wasn’t a lot left by the end of it [laughs].
Travis: Yeah, well, no better time to try pursuing your dream, right?
K.S. Villoso: Yeah, exactly.
Travis: So, talking about the writing then, I’ve seen you mention a bunch of times online before about the power of stories and the craft that goes into writing, so what exactly do you think makes a good story? What makes you look at a work of writing and say “Wow, that is some excellent writing craft”?
K.S. Villoso: So, craft for me is the things you need to put together for any story, and I always admire craft when it can do the story justice. Like, a powerful story for me is something that carries a message or something true to the author’s experience that now they’re trying to share with the world. I’m pretty much a nerd about story mechanics, but what really makes me stop and pay attention is a story that bares a little bit of the writer’s soul, so that’s the stuff that you can’t really copy or recreate. It’s kind of unique to the author.
Travis: Yeah, that makes sense.
K.S. Villoso: It’s always about the heart of the thing, like, I can’t say exactly, but like, if I see it, I know it.
Travis: Right. Are there particular authors that jump to mind when you think about that? That really pour their soul into their work?
K.S. Villoso: Oh, Robin Hobb.
Travis: Yeah.
K.S. Villoso: Yeah.
Travis: Pours her soul into her work and tears your soul right out too.
K.S. Villoso: Yeah. I think she – like, there’s that old saying “No tears in the writer, no tears in the reader.” [laughs]
Travis: [laughs] I haven’t heard that before, but that’s very appropriate.
K.S. Villoso: Yeah, I’ve heard it around.
Travis: Yeah, I guess, are there – you say you’re a nerd for story mechanics, so like, what kind of story mechanics really get you excited? Or like, how do you recognize good story mechanics, how do you approach story mechanics, any of that?
K.S. Villoso: Like, again, it’s really in a way that makes the story better, because I’ve read stories that the mechanics are not great, but the story is still good enough that, you know, you’re still hooked. Maybe a great example of that is some of the creepypasta going around online, if you’ve read any of those. Like, they’re not put together great, but the story’s really good, right? But good craft would then be elevating that story, making it into such a good experience that you can’t look away.
Travis: Okay, interesting. So, would you kind of separate writing craft from storytelling in a way?
K.S. Villoso: Yeah, definitely.
Travis: Huh.
K.S. Villoso: Like, the craft is something you can learn. Like, you can learn to get better at dialogue, you can learn to get better at describing things, but there’s a fair amount of, like, art in story, where it’s – you have to have an eye for tension and where it’s going.
Travis: Yeah, and that’s something – before I started really paying much attention to, I guess, like, the actual writing side of things, is, I just assumed that writers were, like, these brilliant artists who sat down and a story just flowed out of them and that was it, but there’s, like, a lot of grueling labor in it.
K.S. Villoso: Oh yeah. Like sometimes, there’s even – you write a story, but it doesn’t have a story. You just went through the motions of writing it and then at the end of it you’re like, “Okay, this thing doesn’t have a story, so I have to go back and rewrite it, knowing what the story is.”
Travis: Right. So, kind of just, like, discovering the story as you write, and then honing and whittling it down and whipping it into shape?
K.S. Villoso: Yeah.
Travis: Is that your writing process or do you do something different?
K.S. Villoso: More or less. Like, it’s very different for every one [the way she said this sounded like ‘every individual story’, which is why it’s two words], but I’ve done it that way, where I didn’t know where it was going and by the end of it, I’m like, “Yeah, it went nowhere.” [laughs]
Travis: [laughs]
K.S. Villoso: So, I just threw it out. [laughs]
Travis: Oh man, that’s gotta hurt, just throwing away those words.
K.S. Villoso: Yeah, I’ve done it quite, fairly often.
Travis: Yeah. So, something that interests me about your writing, and I guess this is more on the storytelling angle than the actual craft, but it definitely – it doesn’t feel like your standard Western Medieval European-type setting, um, so how did you go about making it feel different? I mean, obviously you have the experience to draw on, but what were you hoping would make it into your writing?
K.S. Villoso: Uh, for like, for my culture? Or what?
Travis: Um, I guess maybe from Filipino culture. What are some details you put in that maybe some people who aren’t that knowledgeable, like me, might not pick up on at first glance but make it ring a bit more true?
K.S. Villoso: So, like, I have a hard time separating my culture from like – it’s basically in everything I do, but the stand-out one in my story that is very Filipino is the focus on relationships.
Travis: Okay.
K.S. Villoso: So, like, in Filipino culture we’re very community and family oriented. So, if you can see my writing, a lot of it is like really digging into relationships and knowing how people relate to each other. So, like, a great example is I’ve always had people asking why Talyien doesn’t just ditch her husband, why, you know, she’s holding on to, like, her father’s words and stuff like that. The answer is there, like, Filipino culture, you don’t just say goodbye to someone that you’re supposed to be tied to, like a family member.
Travis: And I guess that’s a perfect segue into talking about your new novel The Wolf of Oren-Yaro. What was the origin for that story? Was that the idea, the separation of the husband and wife?
K.S. Villoso: Yeah, something like that, like there were a bunch of ideas that I kinda put together. The first thing is that Queen Talyien is actually the daughter of the secondary antagonist in one of my previous books.
Travis: Oh, okay, that was your Agartes Epilogues?
K.S. Villoso: Yeah, I think it was in book two.
Travis: Okay.
K.S. Villoso: The Aina’s Breath, and then the set up for that, I thought, was perfect for the beginning of her story, and at the same time it was kind of like a what if, like a desire to explore the strength and resilience from the point of view of a woman who has to deal with the same challenges as a male chosen one. So, it’s a typical hero’s journey written from the point of view of a woman, and then just like, just going crazy with the possibilities there.
Travis: I noticed one of the main themes that stood out to me in The Wolf of Oren-Yaro was that motherhood. You know, it’s so central to Queen Talyien’s identity, so, I guess, is that something that you specifically sought to include or did that just happen from the story?
K.S. Villoso: It kinda just happened because, like, I was looking at Talyien as a whole. Her child is part of her world and her experiences, and since my writing is very much almost like a character study, so it’s part of her life, her being a mother. So how she looks at herself as a parent is then, it’s used in contrast to how she was raised by her father. So, the father-daughter relationship is kind of like, it’s being compared to the mother-son relationship.
Travis: So, as a mother yourself, do you put much of yourself into Talyien?
K.S. Villoso: She pretty much draws from a lot of my own experiences. All the characters do [laughs].
Travis: Yeah, I guess that’s a good point. It’s probably impossible to write a character that doesn’t have any basis in yourself.
K.S. Villoso: Yeah, exactly [laughs].
Travis: What other themes did you seek to explore in The Wolf of Oren-Yaro?
K.S. Villoso: I think the main one is the very, it tackles of lot of what it means to grow up in a society with very rigid parental expectations. So, for many Asian cultures, we’re raised with this idea of harmony, family, community being more important than self, so it’s a constant source of struggle, especially when there’s, like, toxic behavior involved. So, how do you reconcile yourself and what you want, and what will make you happy, and your responsibilities as well as your place in society?
Travis: Yeah, no, that – finding yourself and where you fit in in society and your role in it, I think that’s one of the most powerful themes, and probably most books touch on that to a certain extent?
K.S. Villoso: Yeah, so, in my book it kind of plays with the expectations of parents, and then not quite knowing whether it’s them or you that’s talking anymore.
Travis: Right. Yeah, I know, the whole time I was reading, I guess there were some flashbacks, but even outside of that, you kind of felt Talyien’s father as like this presence in everything she did.
K.S. Villoso: Yep [laughs].
Travis: I assume that was very much intentional [laughs].
K.S. Villoso: Yes, very intentional. Like, one thing that maybe is important to notice is that her father’s already dead. Like, even before the beginning of the first book, her father’s already dead, so the relationship there never actually grows or develops, set in stone, which means it’s part of her personality at this point. It’s part of who she is. So, it’s something that she has to deal with on her own.
Travis: Yeah, and I found that to be pretty powerful in the book, where she’s now, everything’s on her own, she’s just come off of years of trying to hold together her nation on her own and put up a brave front, but also hold together, like, her family unit.
K.S. Villoso: Yeah.
Travis: So, one thing for me that, whenever I’m talking with other fans of the book, I always hear this rivalry between Khine and Rayyel. First, I guess, are those how you say their names?
K.S. Villoso: [laughing] Yeah.
Travis: Okay, perfect! So I won’t sound like an idiot for the rest of this. Um, so, I guess, how did those characters come about, because they’re pretty different from each other.
K.S. Villoso: Well, Rayyel is actually designed to basically be Talyien’s complete opposite in every way [laughs]. I very much designed a character that would just irk her [laughs]. So, it’s just wonderful writing them together. And then Khine is kind of in the same way, he acts kind of like the mentor character in this story, where he points out stuff that’s obvious to her – sorry, he points out stuff that’s obvious, but it’s not obvious to her.
Travis: Yeah, yeah.
K.S. Villoso: I’m not sure about a rivalry there. I think people just kind of made it up on their own [laughs].
Travis: Well, you see, cards on the table here, I agree with you. I think there is no rivalry because Rayyel is clearly the winner in any competition there.
K.S. Villoso: Yeah, exactly [laughs].
Travis: I mean, a wise and noble ruler? He may have just packed up and abandoned all his responsibilities, his kingdom, his family, but you know, I’m sure he had his reasons. And what’s so special about a con-artist on the streets, right? Team Rayyel all the way.
K.S. Villoso: Plus, Rayyel is a really good-looking guy [laughs].
Travis: Ah, yeah, so. I mean, I imagined them both as good-looking, but Rayyel obviously is the more handsome one.
K.S. Villoso: Yeah, exactly.
Travis: Okay, yup, it’s canonical. Rayyel is more handsome than Khine.
K.S. Villoso: I’ve said it in the book actually [laughs].
Travis: Oh really? So, it is actually canonical [laughs].
K.S. Villoso: Yeah, it is canon [laughs].
Travis: Good. And I think I’m kind of propping up team Rayyel on my own, so I have to be a fan for him.
K.S. Villoso: Yeah.
Travis: [laughs]. So, another thing, I guess kind of on the meta level, that interests me about The Wolf of Oren-Yaro is it was initially self-published and now this is its launch under Orbit, picked up for traditional publishing. So, what was that process like?
K.S. Villoso: It was overwhelming [laughs]. It all happened really fast, because, like, what happened was I just got an email from the guy who’s now my editor, Bradley, saying that he read the book and he loved it, and he was asking if I could formally submit it to Orbit. And then, like, a month later they have an offer and I was scrambling to get an agent [laughs].
Travis: I mean, that’s gotta be a good position to be in, right? Like, you have a book deal on the table and then you find an agent, that’s kinda the opposite direction most people go.
K.S. Villoso: Yeah, it was, you kinda go from not thinking that you’d ever be published, and then a month later you’re holding this [23: 53 unclear word] there’s this book deal in your email [laughs].
Travis: Yeah, that’s just incredible, I mean, what was that like, what were you first thinking when you got that email about the book deal?
K.S. Villoso: Oh man, I think my brain just stopped [laughs]. I guess I remember the first thing I did was like, I went to my husband, I sent him a screenshot [laughs].
Travis: [laughs].
K.S. Villoso: And then I think I told you guys after.
Travis: Yeah, I remember hearing pretty soon after. You’re like, “Okay, you can’t tell anyone, but this happened!”
K.S. Villoso: [laughs] Yeah, that was good.
Travis: Yeah, I think we freaked out for you.
K.S. Villoso: Yeah, the greatest thing about that was, like, I think Hiu was encouraging me to contact agents, and so like the day before I actually got the book deal in my email, I sent an email to Hannah saying that, yeah, Orbit’s been interested and so and so. And then the morning after I got the email from Orbit, so I sent her another email [laughs] and I’m thinking, like, “Oh my gosh, she probably thinks that it’s fake” [laughs], she probably thinks I’m pulling her leg just so she can read my manuscript.
Travis: Yeah, that’s incredible, you – as an agent, you probably don’t get many people who are like “Hey, so can you like take a look at my stuff, it’s started to get some interest. Oh, uh, by the way, next day, I’ve got a deal, so…” [laughs].
K.S. Villoso: Yeah. I think it was less than twelve hours, too.
Travis: Oh wow. That’s just incredible.
K.S. Villoso: And then I sent her a third email because I realized that I was emailing her query inbox, which she probably didn’t open every day. So, I sent her a third one saying, “I’ve been emailing your query inbox and I think that this is your regular mail” [laughs].
Travis: That’s, I mean, that’s gotta be probably the strongest query she’s ever received.
K.S. Villoso: Yeah, and then she replied then, and she just asked for my manuscript and she read it in a day. So, by Monday I had an offer for representation from her.
Travis: Wow, that’s incredible, that’s a really fast turnaround time.
K.S. Villoso: Yep [Laughs].
Travis: I know one of the draws of self-publishing, right, is you have absolute total control over everything, and you even actually published this book self-publishing back in 2018, I want to say?
K.S. Villoso: Yeah.
Travis: So, what kind of things can we expect to change in the story? Was it just kind of a light polish, was there significant additions?
K.S. Villoso: It’s ten per cent longer.
Travis: Oh really? So, is that additional scenes or just…?
K.S. Villoso: Yeah, there’s a lot of additional scenes that kind of just like deepens some of the character arcs. There’s a couple more flashbacks. And the book actually starts, like the Orbit version starts way before the self-published version does. So, it starts when Talyien is still in Jin-Sayeng.
Travis: Ah.
K.S. Villoso: And it actually shows her receiving the letter from her husband.
Travis: Okay.
K.S. Villoso: Before, in the self-published version, that was just a flashback.
Travis: Right. So, is there a lot of, I guess, restructuring of existing scenes like that? Like, converting flashbacks in the present time, or?
K.S. Villoso: Um, not too much. I think it’s just mostly new scenes padding up that – adding up to that ten per cent.
Travis: Okay. So, what you’re saying, I’m definitely gonna need to brush up and read the book again before I even worry about going to the second book?
K.S. Villoso: Yes [laughs].
Travis: Ah, fantastic. And you know, I’ll probably – there’s an audiobook version being made, right?
K.S. Villoso: Yes.
Travis: I will probably be picking that up. Maybe in addition to the physical, cause let’s be honest, I’m definitely putting one of these on my shelf.
K.S. Villoso: Yeah, I love the cover art [laughs].
Travis: The cover art is gorgeous, and I think I saw a twitter thread from you awhile back talking about, like, there’s a lot of power in, like, the small details in it.
K.S. Villoso: Uh, it’s really mostly because it’s, it’s the first time I’ve seen a Filipino woman on the cover of an epic fantasy book.
Travis: Yeah.
K.S. Villoso: And it’s, like, it just blew my mind because this is the genre that I’ve loved to read for the last couple of decades, I guess. And… yeah.
Travis: And even, I think you were saying the sword itself, like, that’s all, like, fairly accurate to what Talyien would actually be wielding.
K.S. Villoso: Yeah, the sword actually is her dad’s sword. It doesn’t show up until the third book.
Travis: Okay. Well, I guess more accurate in terms of the design, maybe not when she’s necessarily holding it. ‘Cause the cover’s point is to kind of not necessarily show a specific scene, right?
K.S. Villoso: Yeah. Yeah, like, Orbit asked for details for the design of it, so, the sword is a kampilan, a Filipino sword.
Travis: Okay. What, I guess, for people like me who love swords but don’t actually know anything about them, I guess, what’s different about a kampilan… kampilan?
K.S. Villoso: Kampilan. So, the handle is usually shaped like a creature, like a… so, either like a dragon or something, some creature [laughs].
Travis: Okay.
K.S. Villoso: And then the tip of the sword is hooked, which they say is – just makes it easier to disembowel things [laughs].
Travis: [Laughs] That’s lovely.
K.S. Villoso: Yeah [laughs]. Yeah, so like, the first glance on this cover, it’s basically, she’s Filipino.
Travis: Yeah, that’s just… that’s just incredible, and I mean, it’s a cover, in my opinion, that pops, too, like it just looks great.
K.S. Villoso: Yeah. When I saw it, I wasn’t kidding about my reaction when I first saw it.
Travis: Yeah. It’s – they got a very talented artist for it, that’s for sure.
K.S. Villoso: Yeah.
Travis: So, you talked, like, part of what was being tightened up in the traditionally published version of the book is the character arcs. Would you say that the Wolf of Oren-Yaro and really all of your writing, I suppose, is more character-driven than it is plot-driven?
K.S. Villoso: Uh, my definite focus is character, so, like, I always say character-driven because it is written for people who are looking for character in their reading material in particular, but it’s very plot-driven as well.
Travis: Right. And, I mean, every book has to have characters and every book has to have a plot. At least, for me, I struggle in trying to figure out what the difference is between them, I don’t know, where do you draw the line?
K.S. Villoso: For me, character-driven, basically it has to have complete character arcs. So, like, the character itself is the plot, in a way. So, I can, like – there can be character-driven without plot, but basically the character has to learn something and has to, you know, go through growth of some sort.
Travis: Yeah, that, that makes sense. I know, at least, what I used to think was, if a book’s character-driven it means it’s kind of slice of life and there’s not much plot, but there’s really no reason why there can’t be tons of epic plot in there as well.
K.S. Villoso: Yeah, exactly, and that’s the approach I do where it has that, but it does still have the traditional fantasy epic plot, where like, with villains and stuff, and there’s traditional climax and everything.
Travis: There’s definitely all of that in spades in The Wolf of Oren-Yaro. So, one thing that’s fairly unique is all of these books are kinda set in the same universe, like you were saying, like the minor antagonist from the original trilogy shows up as kinda the father-figure in this new one, so, I guess first of all, the world is called Agos-Agan, is that how you say it?
K.S. Villoso: Agos-Agan, yeah.
Travis: Agos-Agan, Agan, okay, I’ll probably still butcher that a little bit, but I’m closer to being correct. Why set things in a shared universe like that? Why not have totally distinct trilogies?
K.S. Villoso: Uh, I just, I love going off tangent with characters, like when you’re making a minor character pop out, that means you’re adding problems and you’re adding, like, you’re rounding them up as characters, and, like, I noticed that some of them, they have really good stories, like, they’re not the major characters, so I just go and then I explore things from that perspective in a different novel. And it just makes for this really living, breathing world kind of thing.
Travis: I mean, what’s, like, the kind of cliché saying? Everyone’s the protagonist of their own story, so it’s really cool to see that, like, in literal stories.
K.S. Villoso: Yeah, exactly.
Travis: What other plans do you have with this world? I think you’ve said before, like, in maybe a Reddit AMA that most of your fantasy writing you plan to be set in this same universe.
K.S. Villoso: Yes and no [laughs]. So, like, my future writing projects right now, like, with The Wolf of Oren-Yaro it’s set in Jin-Sayeng, which is like a pre-colonial longing kind of world where I pretend that the Philippines was not colonized and was just influenced by other Asian nations instead. So, what I’m working on right now is more post-colonial Philippines.
Travis: So, is that, I guess, set forward in time, or is that totally, totally different world, is that what you’re saying?
K.S. Villoso: Yeah, it may be a different world, I’m not gonna say much [laughs].
Travis: Okay, fair enough, yup. Um, wanna avoid spoilers or anything like that.
K.S. Villoso: Yeah.
Travis: Now, is this the same work you’ve mentioned maybe exploring, like, some gunpowder fantasy?
K.S. Villoso: Uh, yeah.
Travis: Okay, that’s thrilling. I love, I love gunpowder fantasy, kind of like that earlier technology era.
K.S. Villoso: Yeah, it’s – like, post-colonial Philippines is basically, there’s a lot of European influence there, so it’s a little bit different than what I’ve been writing so far.
Travis: Yeah. So, would you ever, uh, I guess, other than your work which may or may not be in the same universe, have you ever considered just something totally different, writing in a different genre or something like that?
K.S. Villoso: Oh, I have a bunch of those things, like I have a kind of urban fantasy werewolf kind of series that I’ve abandoned.
Travis: Oh no. Permanently abandoned?
K.S. Villoso: I’m not sure when I’m going to be able to pick it up again.
Travis: Yeah, that’s fair, there’s only so much time to pursue certain projects.
K.S. Villoso: Yeah, like, I’m pretty much open to writing anything that comes to mind. I have a few that are fantasy but they’re not epic fantasy. Yeah, I just haven’t had the time.
Travis: I mean, writing takes a lot of time.
K.S. Villoso: Exactly.
Travis: I know, like maybe you’re not continuing it, but I’m curious: was that your Black Dog series?
K.S. Villoso: Yeah.
Travis: And, so, I looked at the cover earlier today, and that is a terrifying dog.
K.S. Villoso: [Laughs] So, that’s another – that series is about the aswang as well.
Travis: Okay, so kind of drawing on some of that same lore and mythology.
K.S. Villoso: Yeah, but it’s more urban fantasy, Manila-style.
Travis: Gotcha. ‘Cause I saw that cover and my only thought was “The dog is terrifying, and dogs are so wonderful and perfect and loving.”
K.S. Villoso: [Laughs] The story’s about a boy who basically, he rediscovers his family and there’s more to that than he realized.
Travis: [Laughs] That sounds like an understatement.
K.S. Villoso: Yeah.
Travis: Um, well, what books have you been reading recently? Anything good that you’d like to recommend or talk about?
K.S. Villoso: The last book I read that was awesome was Realm of Ash, but Tasha Suri.
Travis: Oh, rub it in, rub it in.
K.S. Villoso: Yeah [laughs].
Travis: Yeah, I recently, I read Empire of Sand in preparation for Realm of Ash coming out and I loved it, so now I get to be super jealous seeing people get the advance reading copies online.
K.S. Villoso: Yeah, I just realized that when we were talking about this, it’s like months after it came out, but it’s about to come out next week.
Travis: That’s okay. So, listeners, go ahead and buy it because you don’t have to wait, you don’t have to suffer like me.
K.S. Villoso: Yeah, other than that, I haven’t been reading too much. I’ve been binging on Bojack Horseman episodes.
Travis: Oh. You know, I’ve heard, I’ve heard good things about it. I’ve also heard that it’s kind of emotionally tough to binge that show.
K.S. Villoso: Yeah, I binged it [laughs]. But I also binge Robin Hobb novels and [unclear 33:41] novels.
Travis: Oh wow. You really are a glutton for punishment then.
K.S. Villoso: Yeah, I am [laughs].
Travis: I don’t know, I was even – I was talking with someone recently, and they brought up, like, some of my favorite books are the ones that make me feel a little bit terrible. Like, they really, kind of, pull on your heartstrings.
K.S. Villoso: Yeah, I think I’m the same.
Travis: Yeah. And, I mean, you work some of that into your writing as well, so that’s obviously rubbed off some.
K.S. Villoso: I think it’s like a way of making sense of the world. Just kind of like – like the opposite of escapism, but the same purpose.
Travis: Okay, yeah, that’s an interesting way to put it.
K.S. Villoso: You’re like, instead of escaping the truth, you just kinda look at it in the face until it feels okay.
Travis: Yeah, I mean, that’s something, I guess, more recently that I found with even just like speculative fiction where people are like “Oh, you know, escapism, like, forget about real life for a while”. But, I mean, there’s tons of heavy issues tackled and things that can help you process, you know, the crap that is the real world.
K.S. Villoso: Yeah. Like, because the thing with stories is that they have a point. If it’s a bad story then obviously you’re going to have a lot of suffering and it doesn’t go anywhere, but, like, when you’re consuming a good story, you’re seeing a lot of suffering, but you’re kind of hoping that, at some point, the author tells you why.
Travis: Yeah.
K.S. Villoso: Which is not the same in real life. So, I think that’s… that’s the escapism there for me. Like, the suffering has a purpose.
Travis: Yeah. And if someone could tell me why in real life, that would be nice.
K.S. Villoso: Yeah.
Travis: Well, another thing I like to ask kind of towards the end of these interviews is: what’s something you’ve been ridiculously excited about lately? I mean, it can be a book, it can be a show, it can be something totally unrelated in the real world. Just whatever.
K.S. Villoso: Um, well, I’ve been playing World of Warcraft with some of the bloggers [laughs], and we’ve been doing a lot of dungeoning.
Travis: Okay.
K.S. Villoso: That’s mostly what I’ve been busy with.
Travis: World of Warcraft is probably like, I don’t know, like my biggest gaming experience ever, at least in videogames, I play a lot of boardgames. So, I definitely go way back with that.
K.S. Villoso: Yeah, like, we picked it up in the summer when the Classic came out. I haven’t played it since, like, for a long time, nearly a decade, so it’s just been good for revisiting old, those old places and getting nostalgia.
Travis: Yeah, ‘cause it’s the Classic, that’s the… kinda, they reset everything back to the original game, is that what it was?
K.S. Villoso: Yeah, so it’s all back to the harder modes.
Travis: Oh yeah. Yeah, I hear it’s changed a lot in the last decade or so. I know, I’m always the guy that takes forever to get from, like, level one to level five, ‘cause, I don’t know, I just like running around and jumping in circles and exploring stuff.
K.S. Villoso: Yeah, you should really join us [laughs].
Travis: [Laughs] I would be holding you guys back so much [laughs].
K.S. Villoso: Oh, we do it ourselves already. There’s been some great wipes [? 40:59].
Travis: Oh man. Yeah, I have lots of memories of the time spent as a ghost trying to find my body again.
K.S. Villoso: Oh, we still do a lot of that [laughs].
Travis: [Laughs].
K.S. Villoso: There was one – there’s times when somebody’s pets cost us a wipe [I think? 41:16]
Travis: Oh no.
K.S. Villoso: There was another time where, like, you just almost see our death happen in slow motion. You can just see all the mobs just going towards us, they’re like “Oh, crap”. [Laughs]. It’s great.
Travis: So, what role are you in the party? Are you like the tank, the healer?
K.S. Villoso: I’m playing a shaman.
Travis: Shaman, okay.
K.S. Villoso: So, like, I’m kinda basically circulating. Sometimes if there’s no healer, then I’m the healer.
Travis: Yeah, so that, that means, I guess if this is Classic, that you guys are a horde?
K.S. Villoso: Uh, yeah.
Travis: Yes! I always loved horde.
K.S. Villoso: Yeah, I’m playing a male orc [laughs].
Travis: Alright, alright.
K.S. Villoso: Which I think I, I think I did just to troll one of your blogmates.
Travis: [Laughs] Really? I feel like there’s a story behind that.
K.S. Villoso: Well, I’m calling the orc “Agos”.
Travis: [Laughs].
K.S. Villoso: Which probably doesn’t mean much to anybody who hasn’t read the book, but if you’ve read the book… [laughs]
Travis: Okay, so, so you’re trolling Wol.
K.S. Villoso: Yeah, exactly. So, I trolled her, I made the character “Agos” and now I’m stuck with him. So we’ve been kind of low-key roleplaying The Wolf of Oren-Yaro, because our guild is called The Wolves of Oren-Yaro.
Travis: Oh, that’s awesome.
K.S. Villoso: Yeah.
Travis: So, is anybody, I guess I have to ask, Rayyel or Khine or no?
K.S. Villoso: So, I also made a character called Rayyel.
Travis: Okay.
K.S. Villoso: Um, we’re not sure who Khine is, somebody took the name Khine already [laughs].
Travis: [Laughs].
K.S. Villoso: So, we just occasionally run into him in the world, with him out there.
Travis: [Laughs]. Oh, that’s kinda the reverse of how it is in the book, I guess, where you occasionally run into Rayyel doing his own thing.
K.S. Villoso: [Laughs].
Travis: Yeah, I was always the guy in World of Warcraft who would try to make, like, the really fancy names by adding accent marks over all the letters. Uh, I don’t even want to think about what my names were actually pronounced.
K.S. Villoso: [Laughs].
Travis: Yeah, I was that guy. Well, that is about all the questions I have for you. This has been absolutely wonderful, Kay, it was great to have you on the podcast.
K.S. Villoso: Thank you. I got really excited when I saw you podcast, something new.
Travis: Yeah, I mean, it’s been a lot of fun, so, I have big dreams for it, certainly, and if it means I get to talk to, like, some of my favorite authors like you, then, I mean that’s all worth it right there.
K.S. Villoso: It’s an honor to be one of the authors that you interview.
Travis: Well, this has been wonderful, Kay.
K.S. Villoso: Thank you so much.
Travis: You can find K.S. Villoso on Twitter as @k_villoso, or at her website www.ksvilloso.com. The Wolf of Oren-Yaro is available now in e-book, paperback and audio. Check the show notes for links to all of them. If you like deeply personal, character-driven stories with a focus on family, or just feel like scaring yourself with creepy mages and insane dragons, The Chronicles of the Bitch Queen is the story for you.
As always, you can find us over at thefantasyinn.com, or on Twitter and Instagram @thefantasyinn. If you enjoyed this interview, consider supporting us on Patreon. You get access to bonus content like the behind-the-scenes series of articles we’re writing about our interview process.
That’s all for this week, see you next time.
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